I don't understand (an AB post)
Aug. 18th, 2005 08:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mhalachaiThis is a post about the Anita Blake fandom. Just so you know ahead of time.
I made the mistake (yes, I'm considering it a mistake now) to sign on for the new Laurell K. Hamilton forums as I wanted to track the fanfic thread (There is an empty forum on the boards entitled "fanfic" and I was ever-so-curious as to what that was all about). I then started reading some of the other posts, and quickly remebered why I'm not on any AB communities on LJ or the like.
Why does one spend so much time trashing a book that one hates? Villifying a) the characters, b) the author and c) the people who read the books? I myself have grown away from series in the past, when the author goes in a direction I find annoying or 'wrong' in my mind... I move on.
So, gentle reader, I ask you these simple questions:
1 - Do you understand the vitriol among the "fans" against people who still like the books?
2 - Do you get why anyone would spend the energy slagging a book they profess to hate?
3 - Is there any place on the net where a discussion on the books are presnet in a pleasant and construtive format? I know I may have asked this before, but I seem to have forgotten.
Thanks.
I made the mistake (yes, I'm considering it a mistake now) to sign on for the new Laurell K. Hamilton forums as I wanted to track the fanfic thread (There is an empty forum on the boards entitled "fanfic" and I was ever-so-curious as to what that was all about). I then started reading some of the other posts, and quickly remebered why I'm not on any AB communities on LJ or the like.
Why does one spend so much time trashing a book that one hates? Villifying a) the characters, b) the author and c) the people who read the books? I myself have grown away from series in the past, when the author goes in a direction I find annoying or 'wrong' in my mind... I move on.
So, gentle reader, I ask you these simple questions:
1 - Do you understand the vitriol among the "fans" against people who still like the books?
2 - Do you get why anyone would spend the energy slagging a book they profess to hate?
3 - Is there any place on the net where a discussion on the books are presnet in a pleasant and construtive format? I know I may have asked this before, but I seem to have forgotten.
Thanks.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 04:57 am (UTC)I've seen two LKH yahoo lists that are positive lists. At least those who chat most of the time are positive about the direction the series is going in -- MicahNimir-Raj (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicahNimir-Raj/) (discussion and fanfic) and LKH_IncubusD (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LKH_IncubusD/) (just discussion)
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 05:04 am (UTC)Bashing stuff on forums devoted to said stuff, though, seems sorta petty and childish. I also get the idea (partly from our IM conversation of the other night) that you don't mean the above-described sorta throwing-popcorn-at-the-screen bashing, but actual vitriolic hatred type bashing. And that I don't get. When I genuinely can't stand something, I just avoid it. For example, romantic comedies. I don't rent romantic comedies and mock them, though there's often much to mock, 'cause I really genuinely just despise them. It wouldn't be fun.
So .. yeah, I dunno. Maybe the readers in question just really overidentified with the characters and felt betrayed when the plot went a way they didn't like. (Though that, IMO, is what fanfic is for - a sort of "better to light a candle than curse the darkness" approach to canon developments you dislike).
-Sonya
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 06:27 am (UTC)2 - Uhmm... Can't say that I do
3 - Your jornal?
And hey, remeber thr golden days of yore when AB was pretty much a virgin?
Yeah I cant imagine it ether ;)
no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 08:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 12:29 pm (UTC)::sigh::
I don't understand that. It's akin to people reading fan-fic and then just bashing the author. If you dont like it, don't read it.
But I totally agree. Its disrespectful to be on the author's ACTUAL forum and be saying that stuff. I'm kinda suprised they're letting it go on.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:AB bashing
Date: 2005-08-19 12:46 pm (UTC)It comes down to morality and sex.
Anita started out being a strong woman who didn't
have casual sex. It is stated over and over again in
the early books. I can see where the series gained fans
because of her moral code. She also was a "monster" killer.
This is/was her claim to fame. She also only killed in extreme
circumstances.
Slowly she was seduced and now is pretty much one of the monsters.
This is enough to bother people because it Scares them.
Could they be seduced by the dark too?
If she had stuck to her morals this would never have happened. That's Scary for some people.
She is able to kill and even torture much easier now and hell the woman has to have sex several times a day in order to feed and keep those tied to her metaphysically healthy. The zealots want to know what happened to their moral hero?
They can't let it go. The character they loved so much has let them down and they can't forgive her for it and they have to do something about it.
So they villify the characters, author and other fans. It has become a crusade for them right up there with religion, politics and abortion.
Viki
Re: AB bashing
From:Re: AB bashing
From:Re: AB bashing
From:Re: AB bashing
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 01:35 pm (UTC)I'd have to agree with the anon post below. These books scare people because she's evolved in a way that is too hard to swallow for a lot of people.
I consider myself a fairly liberal person and some of the concepts in the later books throw me initially (though I love them) but I can't imagine what a person (no offense to anyone from the Midwest) from small town midwest thinks when they read Nathanial taking Anita when he's half changed. It's just delicious to me because she's pushing buttons and testing people to see if they can handle what they may not understand but it's a lot to take in!
This is not your regular Harlequin book! :)
1) I don't get why people who claim to like the books spend so much time railing against them. I can barely stand reading some of the threads on that group how do these people live through each day reading/writing/venting? EVERY SINGLE DAY! All I have to say is these people must be REALLY angry people.
2) I think it makes peope feel self-righteous to rail against things that the general populace would dislike. It makes them feel like "good" people. I don't honestly think it's for anything other than "hey look at me I'm such a good person and these books are naughty".
3) I tend to avoid any place that discusses the stories (Other than your LJ and a few others) because I'm not that emotional about the books. I adore them and have read and re-read them many times but I don't understand the needs of most to bash on characters they don't like (usually Micah), whine about characters they feel are being treated unfair (always Richard), Anita's lack of morals, what an evil bastard JC is, and so on.
I want to discuss how she pushes buttons, why she does it, the evolution of the individual characters and development (or lack of) in others. I don't want to do surface talk and that seems to be all that really exists. There are a few threads on the LKH forum which get me going (in a good way) and talk about the direction of the story and how the pieces fit together. It's good talk - until someone ruins it. :)
If you want a place where constructive discussions can be held on the AB books, you might consider starting your own and clearly outlining the rules of the forum. I would certainly join. :)
The fanfic forum on LKH's board is generally meant for one post that tells you fanfic is not allowed on the forum and you can't rec it either. It's worded in such a way that, to me, says if you want to write it, cool but don't tell anyone. ;)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 01:36 pm (UTC)The people who don't understand the direction of the books, also think that Anita was happy in the early books and the truth was she was miserable. She had a few close girlfriends but she was lonely and angry with everyone and everything. When baiting your boss is the highlight of the day, you don't really have a life. She saw death and brutality thanks to her police consultanting role. And then she fell in with the monsters and discovered....
They don't treat her like a freak. They aren't afraid of her. (Well, they are but that's because if she says she'll kill them, she will.) They welcome her.
As to the vitriol, I think it goes back to the fact that Laurell's writing sucks you in. I don't understand why anyone would waste any time writing about a book they don't like. But I understand the strong reactions the series invokes. Mlady_rebecca gave you the two best yahoo groups for upbeat, positive discussions. Please join us!
I don't know what I will do if and when this obsession ever wears off. I read each new books with apprehension. What if I don't like it? (Hasn't even come close to happening. Hyperventilation? That has come close to happening. Several times. And people wonder why Anita has to learn how to breathe!)
But your comment is why I won't join the new board. I read the rules and then I read what my flist was saying and I don't have the energy to get upset.
I am sure you know that Laurell's stance on Fanfic is that it isn't allowed because her attorney's can't agree on the violation of copyright. She's basically under a don't ask/don't tell attitude. She did request that fanfic be removed from fanfiction.net but I think that's because it was the biggest publicly recognized site. And she doesn't want to be accused of plagarism. I laugh because of the similarities in concept to the first 2 chapters in DM and Consequences. But then, most bad fanfic writers don't understand that most ideas are not that unique. It is the execution of them that is.
I'm long-winded tonight.
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 06:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-20 03:00 am (UTC)1 - Do you understand the vitriol among the "fans" against people who still like the books?
I can understand being confused. I would want to see what the appeal was still (i'm personally getting disappointed, but i still read them), but there is no reason to raise hackles against someone for liking the books. the characters are still there and they are still wonderful. besides, it's no one's right to slander someone for their tastes.
2 - Do you get why anyone would spend the energy slagging a book they profess to hate?
it's one thing to discuss why you are losing interest in a series, but there is such a thing as running it into the ground. they have no life. *shrugs*
3 - Is there any place on the net where a discussion on the books are presnet in a pleasant and construtive format? I know I may have asked this before, but I seem to have forgotten.
i don't know. i wish i could help out. i'd like to check out such a place myself.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-08-22 03:06 pm (UTC)As for your questions:
1) No
2) No
3) I haven't heard of anywhere, but please let me know if you find something...
CoS Forums
Date: 2005-09-05 01:29 pm (UTC)I don't know if you've heard of CoS Forums (http://www.cosforums.com), but I started a thread on it discussing Anita Blake. It doesn't have many members, but it's bash-free mostly from the people who participate often. Once in a while a person comes along and says they don't like it, but then they never come back, so it's just us fans that stay on! Check it out if you want...
P.S. I really like your fics and can't wait to read more of Inevitable!